While fans are still shocked by Jenn TranThe dramatic finale of The Bachelorette, We weekly Two experts called in – Ex-Bachelorette Charity Lawson And Bachelor in Paradise alum Kat Izzo – to reduce the consequences.

“I have no tolerance for men who behave like this, who do not show even a shred of empathy or respect,” said 28-year-old Charity Us during an exclusive interview with Kat, also 28, in our New York studio on Friday, September 6, for her upcoming podcast “Tap In.”

“I don’t know the full context and I don’t know everything about their relationship – (but) honestly, the way that whole finale went down, I feel so bad for Jenn and I just hope that she takes the time to heal from this now,” Charity continued. “Because this is traumatic. I had a great ending and my season was still traumatic. The way that ended was just wrong.”

Charity refers to the show with Jenn and Devin Strader Watch their engagement in the live finale, complete with reactions from Jenn sobbing and Devin showing no emotion. While there was an outcry about whether this was necessary, Jenn said Us Earlier this week, she said she knew ABC would air the proposal and she wanted Devin to see it, too.

Charity, who is still engaged to her last rose winner, draws on her own background as a therapist Dotun Olubeko – said she saw small moments of “gaslighting” and “manipulation” from Devin, noting he was “someone we saw confessing his love every week on national television” before the finale. She acknowledges that it’s difficult to tell the full story because of the editing, but believes Devin “showed it all” during the live finale.

“He was sitting on the couch, the girl was crying her eyes out (and) there was no comfort whatsoever, no compassion. That was really hard for me, especially knowing that I had dealt with people in my past who had similar traits – that was scary,” she said. “I thought to myself, ‘Is it ego? Is it pride? What is it?'”

Kat, for her part, couldn’t help but compare Devin to her Bachelor in Paradise ex John Henry.

“I’ve experienced something almost similar, so it was very emotional for my family and I to watch,” she said. “Breaking up out of the blue over the phone. Watching our engagement and being so confused because we had broken up maybe two weeks before the engagement aired. And I think that was kind of where they were with their schedule as well. And it just shows that men who are so unwilling to take the time to understand themselves and whose emotions come across as so unempathetic to the other partner – whether they mean to or not. Do the work so you don’t hurt anyone. You both have enough experience to do the work.”

Kat noted that it is a risk to appear on the show, but wants the men to join The Bachelorette.

“They don’t know what they want. They talk from their, you know, (behind their back). And that’s at the expense of other people’s feelings,” she continued. “So I would say, ‘I’m done being your collateral damage,’ and she should be too. That’s what we choose to do, that’s a risk we take. … But my goodness, it’s getting worse, like the emotional availability of men.”

Jenn not only called out Devin for pulling out of nowhere and ending things over the phone, but also explained that his actions after the breakup – including following Bachelor alumni Maria Georgaswho many believed would be chosen to star in season 21, on Instagram – has hurt her deeply.

“I know there are all kinds of thoughts going through her head. Like, ‘Did you even like me? Were you even here? Is this what you wanted all along?’ Those are all the intrusive thoughts that come out,” Kat said. Us. “And it’s so valid because we’ve all experienced it in some way. Especially when it’s someone he outright said he thought (would be the Bachelorette).”

Jenn also pointed out that Devin was out clubbing with her co-stars, including Jeremy Simonshortly after the breakup. Some fans believed Charity was also dating Devin, which she clarified Us.

“If you’re going to go down that road, make sure you do it correctly. I’ve never met this man!” Charity said. “I’ve never dated this man. They say, ‘Oh, Devin is probably filming this TikTok.’ I say, ‘Make it make sense. The formula is wrong.'”

The open comment on the Bachelorette Finales and relationships in general are the kinds of conversations the two women hope to have in their upcoming podcast, “Tap In.”

“There’s probably not going to be anything we’re going to be quiet about these days,” Kat told us, noting that Jenn’s finale was “perfect timing” for the couple to share their perspective. “Here’s the example of what we experienced and how it (played out), not just in the Bachelor world, but I think with any woman who’s in the public spotlight.”

“Also, as a woman of color, I bring a unique perspective,” said Charity, one of five Black leads on Bachelor Nation. “And when you see Jenn’s finale and see how this franchise and reality TV in general hasn’t done the best job of supporting women of color, I think, like Kat said, it’s the perfect time (to launch the show). I definitely want to share my insights into my experiences and also use my voice to support and empower others who are falling behind me.”

Charity concluded, “I have been silent long enough.”

Charity and Kat will start recording Tap In this month. Check their Instagram accounts to find out when the first episode will be released.